Creation vs Evolution, is it really a religion vs, science topic?

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  • hidden, you asked why God always testing us. Sometimes tests you endure in life is God's way of discipline when man started derailing to get back on track.
       
  • edited November 2012

    hidden and naoh,

    17 #1. the era between creation to moses is grace, or the fellowship of God and man. When man disobeyed, he brought sin into the picture. While man was in the garden he was completely in fellowship with God, but once removed from the garden, he is limited in that fellowhip because of infection of sin, but can approach God by the sacrifical of animals. Cain brought the sacrifice of vegetables, not animals. Remember the "clothed with animals skin"? That is so man can be in fellowhip with God. The written laws is so man can be held accountable, but doesn't mean the infestion of sin is not present since the garden. The method for God is the sacrifices of animal for the atonement of sin, and not just sin, but to restore the felloswhip with God. Did you get that? At this time, God didn't hold the 'sins' against them, but held them for not offering the animal sacrifies. Hope this help your hurdle with Cain and the rest in this era.

    17 #2. christian God.

     

    Yes, we do know this christian God. How? The bible talks about Jesus Christ who was born of a virgin girl, went preaching about the kingdom of God during his adult life, was accused and crucifed on the cruel punishment of the roman cross, and on the thrid day, he raised from the dead. The jewish historian acknowledged of an individual name Jesus who was crucified by the romans. Jesus said " I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life". So if He is the Way, it means there is no other way to the Father. If He is the Truth, it means what He tells us is the truth, the whole truth. If He is the Life, out side of Him is spiritual deadness. To top it off, He sent us the Holy Spirit with power to witness for Him, like us excahnging with each other. See my friend, your questioning only leads to more circles of questions rather than to Jesus Christ who is the Truth. You know why? Because I am writing to you from within the kingdom of God while you are asking from outside of the kingdom of God. Really? If you read the bible as I challenged you, you'll discover what I just wrote.

     

    17#3. no evidence.

    There is the nation of Israel. There is the bible, a collection of writings that spand centuries around the same theme of this Jehovah God. There is countless individuals who worship this God. Plenty of evidence, but the book of Isaiah says "eyes that are blind, ears taht cannot hear, hearts taht cannot percieve...."

     

    17 #4. removal of bibles.

    I give you credit for such faith. Common sense has killed 300,000 babies each year in the united states, and they consider themselves 70% God fearing. Take that to Russia, and abortion rate is sky high. Take that to china with one child policy, include that with selective abortion.

     

    That's alright, I'm very comfortable taking the bible literally. So here's one for you. since Steve Hawkins is a hero of yours, I'm very sure you would do everything in your power to convince me to go sit and hear him, right? i think it would be foolish to not take the offer. Why? because he claim he, by genuis mind, have discovered the 'black hole', and to his credit othere scientists have given him the honor. But would you ask Steve to go catch a turtle for you? Why, that's a stupid thought. No, humor me and follow the reasoning. Of course not, i assume that is what you said. Why? Because Steve never claimed he can catch a turtle, but do claim the discovery of the balck hole. So, since Steve said there is no god, but Jesus Christ said He came from God, is God, and will go ahead to prepare a place for us. wouldn't it be wise to follow the one who have discovered "The Way" to heaven, don't you think so? i mean, it is wise to go Steve since he found the 'black hole" and it will be wise to go with Jesus since He opened the "heavenly hole" to heaven, no?

     

  • God created evil.

    Okay I';ll follow your train of thought. but you are not the author that is writing the story of life, God is. the word authority came from the word author, the creator. So? Are you then throwing stones at your maker? Why not give it up and get on His Good side? It's called grace, and it will reveal who Jesus Christ is. And when you do, your eyes will be opened spiritually. It begins at the foot of the cross. Remember the animals sacrifices? It all leads to Jesus as the Lamb of God who died on the cross for your sins. That's the message christians carry.

     

  • My young friends. Don't confuse yourselves! Don't separate God and Science! God is the Creator. He is the Great Scientist. All things were made by him. The idea of evolution is of the Devil. If you look at all things, they are govern by laws, which we call them natural laws. These laws are created or organize by a Supreme Being. Let me give you an example: A dictionary book is not created by an explosion in the printing shop, however, it is created by someone or group of people. The earth, the planets, and the stars of heaven are all govern by laws of God. They all move in their motion according to their creation. And we are not evolve from a monkey. What a perfect deception the devil will want us to think. He doesn't want you to think you are a children of a Supreme Creator. All mankind that come into this life has the potential to become like Him who is the creator. That is the promise my young friends!
  • Tamor, I'm really tired of this. You're points never go any farther. They are looping in circles, and you never care to read and understand my posts. If I am to reply to your previous post, I would only have to repeat many of my questions and points. 



  • Hi folks!

    To me if one believe in evolution he or she like to win,. So as one who choose to believe in creation wins. It is like trying to merge two magnets together which it won't work unless one become negative to the other. Remember, faith in God is without seeing or feeling according to the bible. But, science looks and feels is what always be because it does not fully support what the bible is saying that God speaks and everyting comes into existence. In fact, whether or not the bible does not have literal evidence how and what God uses to create everything in the begining like science do, I find nothing to worry because my believe in God's word remain through faith.

    Thank you and God bless.

  • ssearcher, religion doesn't make sense, and also the idea of God. If you disagree, then answer all the numbered questions I posted in this thread. Tamor, and Pekalong have tried for three weeks already.
  • Tried what Hideen? I thought this thread has already been discontinued?
  • Tried to fully answer all of my questions.
  • Hidden,

    you are tired of my views? Nay, you are blind to the truth. See when you are challenged, you retreat. The reason you are blind to the example of the animal sacrifice is your blindness to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. If you can't see it say so, but don't go on assuming you see the truth. See, a child let's say only five years old, and have this revealation of Jesus death on the cross, have the full authority to move heaven, while you with the questions are still blind to spiritual reality, and go around confusing others with intellectual exercise thinking it is spiritual dialogue. This kingdom of God I mention is only entered by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and it cannot be entered by other means, even if one is highly intellegent. Intellegence has nothing to do with it, but a submitted will to the will of God. Remember your premise of evil? Evil is the departure of being with God. Try scuba diving to 100 feet and decide to depart from the scuba tank. not a good idea? That is what evil is, a dedparture from God, where Life exists. Satan departed from God, and evil came into being. How do know this? Because Jesus came and did the Will of the Father. One Will. did you get that?

     

    Interesting that you are not happy with my taking the scriptures literally, but isn't it interesting that you "use' scriptural concepts to try to counter it? sounds like you do believe in it enough to use it to debate.

     

    So let me press further. Yap state will be going through major challenges in coming years with so much money thrown at them. You take bible precepts and statues out and see what it will do to taht beautiful island.  I have families there so I won't just sit around to see the effect of sin bring destruction. You can count me in to be a difference maker.

  • Tamor, you unable to argue many of my points, and had extreme difficulty in understanding them. I tried to explain some, and had to repeat others. I am not blind towards your point, but I refuse to buy your bs. You can't prove that any of things you believe in exists. You're prayers doesn't have any effect, your God never shows up and seems to have forgotten the very you's that love him. 

    You keep taking the bible literally, but you couldn't explain the contradictions that the bible has. 

    The only reason I am using the bible to debate, is that so you would realize the contradictions there are in the bible itself and your very own points. You on the other hand, have too less of an idea about science to even talk about it. I am defending my points and at the same time offensively striking yours, but yet you see none of that. 

    You claim that you don't have time on weekdays but yet, you managed to have time just when I said that I was tired. Where you unable to manage your time when I had many questions??

    "Yap state will be going through major challenges in coming years with so much money thrown at them."

    Oh please do share me your info about money being thrown at them. Yap has cancelled the ETG project. Where are you getting you're info?

    What can you do to make a difference?? Are you gonna read out your versus on a public radio station?? Lol. Tamor, I doubt you can make any difference with your level of understanding and comprehension.







  • Sorry Hidden but I don't understand what you meant. Who doesn't know about Christ's atonement and neither to animal sacrificed? Is this related to the topic of this thread? I don't get it.
  • oh cry out loud. please stop this madness boys. we got enough of it already.
  • I believe it is a topic of both religion and science working harmoniously to understand life.
  • Hidden, now your argument is going around and around like a dog chasing his tail.  We are stuck with you here simply because you couldn't understand God's creation.  It is true that God intend to create the possibility of evil existing as well as God create the possibility that evolution takes place amongst His creations.  Simply understand that creation and evolution are not two distinct personalities but simply as one of many parts.  It is us human beings not so understand His creation therefore we misunderstand the destiny of evolution.

    Also God came to us in many ways as our Yapese God is called "Yalfath".  Whether now we called our God is christian God doesn't mean He is different from other cultures' God.  In our human reality He exists only in principles not from the Bible.  The Bible tells us those principles to follow and it's us who may not comprehend them and not by all means contradiction.  You are having problem distinguish between worldly things and Godly ones.

    You said that people knows killing and stealing are bad before the Bible arrives our shore.  That is true because came to us in many ways not just from the Bible as you speculated.  Adam and Eve had no Bible and there was no reason to have them but to follow God's word not to eat the fruit of that tree.  The fruit will give them knowledge of many things.  They chose the advice of Satan to acquire knowledge and death will be the result of the sin committed.  God gave us the chance to be godly human being but we choose otherwise simple because there were possibility of being evil as Lucifer chose to rebel against Him.

    Hidden, you are an intellect individual but it seems to me that a lot of things about theism that require only common sense to understand without any Bible scriptures.  think about yourself, what is your purpose in life. Are you mainly for the evolution process that takes place on earth or something of divine in nature?  Your chance of existence is about one in a trillion so evolution is by complex possibilities and I think you are not like that. You have a purpose in life and perhaps you have a purpose in this forum testing us of little understanding we have.  Thanks!

    With love..........., I remain a friend.


  • FOOLS,,READ THE BIBLE AND ULL GET UR ANSWER,,ITS CONFUSING BUT MY ADVICE IS SEEK A GOOD TEACHER...OH,OH,,SOMETIMES ITS HARD FOR SOME PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND CUZ,,MAYBE,,ITS NOT THEIR TIME,,,OR MAYBE,,TOO PROUDY,,FUNNY,DID YOU KNOW THAT EVERY NAMES OF THE STARS AND UNIVERSE WAS ALREADY NAMED IN THE BIBLE?...WELL,,ITS GOOD TO LEARN ABOUT LIFE,,,BUT,BUT,,KEEP IN MIND,,LIFE IS ABOUT BALANCE,,,
  • sinner you need to respect others.
  • edited November 2012
    "  It is true that God intend to create the possibility of evil existing as well as God create the possibility that evolution takes place amongst His creations.  Simply understand that creation and evolution are not two distinct personalities but simply as one of many parts."

    That could be the case. I am not against your idea. In fact, if I am to believe religion, I would believe it in the way you have described. (Believing both science and the creation).

    "Also God came to us in many ways as our Yapese God is called "Yalfath".  Whether now we called our God is christian God doesn't mean He is different from other cultures' God."

    Once again, If I was to believe in religion, this is the exact way I would believe it. 

     Nutcracker, honestly speaking I am flattered. I was hoping someone with such perspective show up. Noob did, and explained similarly (Co-existence of evolution and bible creation) but never had the chance to explain like you did since some confusion prevented that...Lol. I am not an intellectual person. I am just one who likes to think openly regardless of how many people think the other way. Think about, in case I am wrong, everyone can learn from my bad examples. 



    I suspect that you're a new user and has no idea of how to discuss. I do have my own share of mischief and nonsense in this forum, but when I need to be serious, I do try my best.

    You always seem to shoot out your conclusions way too early in the discussions. You clearly have no idea about many of things you are talking about. 

    I use to read the bible daily, believed in God, attend church regularly, and try follow a righteous path. Now it's different story. As I started to question religion many things became obvious which then further my curiosity. Because some of those things could not be explained, I have decided to stay out. 

    Don't think that I am those kind who's never went to church, read the bible, but ignorantly attack religion. I may be ignorant, but I used to be religious.  





  • edited November 2012
    Very interesting Hidden. I like your points.
  • hiddern and naoh,

    The problem is that you throwt out so many questions but don't take the time to engage examining each one. Go back to the issue of Cain marrying his sister. For you it is a finish issue, but in thinking you've seal the argument. Wrong. Using "uncovering nakedness' as a law from Leviticus, and "thou shall not kill" is comtradictory. Since Cain killed his brother, how is it 'Impossible" for Cain to break "uncovering his sister's nakedness". That's why i don't go after all your questions since it's a cycle of endless questions, but never getting to the truth. Get to the bottom of Jesus Christ and the power of His Cross. It is the passport into this kingdom of God that you are blind of.

    And Naoh, stop encouraging him in his blindness of spiritual arguments. You'll both wind up in a ditch.
  • nutcracker,

    I thought I was the only one noticing the endless questions to no where. Thanks for pointing that out.
  • Tamor,

    Who is naoh? Just wondering, you keep mentioning this name yet I am not sure who you are referring to?
  • Noab,

     

    My apology for mispelling your name. Wasn't trying to be disrespectful or to trash your name. I will try to get to the topic of creation by biblical proof, but so much questions from hidden that it needed attention. Hope it will be soon so we can exchange how the bible can give a narrative of how this world can into existance.

  • hidden,

    Hang with me. When you switch from #1. Law, to #2 Grace (or God) #3 to sin. you lost your bearing to the foundation of your question. Usinf the argument that "uncovering nakedness" (#1 law) to discount creation and use it to proof that Cain didn't procreate with his sister, and then turn varound to use "thous shall not kill" (law) to proof, #3 which is sin, you've moved the foundation of your premise. So slow down so you can open your spiritual eyes to see. Did Cain kill his brother? Yes. Is it a sin? Yes. ( now don't go running around with questions in your mind, stay with me so you can see it). Now if Cain did kill his brother, why van't he break the law of "uncover nakedness"? Now should you take the time to ask any law student they will inform you that law enforcements cannot arrest you for something that their is no law to convict you of.

     

    The Law to intentional killing (premeditated). Whoever intentionally killed someone during the mosaic era. his/her life is required to be killed as well. "An eye for van eye, and a tooth for a tooth". That's the law. But if you examinie if God killed Cain, he only received a mark, but his life was spared. This practice is called "grace". I repeatedly told you that you are spiritually blind (or cannot see or comprehend the work Jesus did), but if you really want to understand look at the example of Jesus and the adulterious woman. the men that brought this woman was doing what the law required "death to adultery", but Jesus asked all the men to throw the first stone that didn't commit any sin. They didn't and Jesus didn't chase any to stone them, meaning Jesus operated by grace.

     

    Now if you are to understand grace, you'll have to understand why Jesus had to die on the cross. This are informations you should have been taught as a child. But intellectual exercise is not the same as submitted will to the Will of God. This is where evil derived from, the separation of will apart from Go'ds will. Go to the grave an ask any of your friends duried there to wake up. Cannot? Because they are physically dead. When we exchange on the word of God, and you are not responding to it, it is called "spiritually dead" Paul says it this way "you are dead in your traspasses" Or your deadness is the result of constantly breaking the laws of God.

     

    I can go on, but not sure if you can handle this kind of truth and go back "hiding" with cycles of questions that will not awake spiritual life in you.

  • Tamor, you got it, I like it.
  • edited November 2012
    Tamor,

    If you are implying me, then the spelling is not "noah" nor is it "noab", its "NOOB", but apology accepted, I know you are not doing this on purpose. Just give me a second while I reread your post directed at 'noah' and 'noab' because I didn't think it was me....lol. And by all means, address Hidden's questions first before you get to mine, Hidden posted first so address your answers to Hidden and when thats settled then we can talk about mine, which is not really a question but a theory....till then, have a nice day. 

  • Good sense of humor.
  • Noob and hidden,

    Noob, what can I say for repeated mistakes? double apologies.

    Hidden, please don't be offended  for intense exhcanges but take it as a complement. I am very aware of your keen mind and believe you can go deeper than surface ideas. (science or religion)

    To both,

    Early on I mention to look at Genesis 1:1 and Gen 1:2.

     

    Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (and)

    Gen 1:2 and the earth was without void and form. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep.

    Gen1:3 (Narriates the stages of creation)

     

    Gen 1:1.

    #1. The bible starts out by stating, not suggesting one'as authority (in the beginning GOD.....), simply, GOD, and through out the bible He is referred as Spirit. So Gen 1;1 can be read as "In the beginning (the spirit world) created the heavens and the earth (or the physical worlds).

     

    Gen1:2

    And the earth is void and without form.

     

    These two verses can missed is read quickly. To see the difference between the two, Gen 1;1 (....heavens and the earth, but Gen1:2 (earth void and without form). There is a big gap, or a huge pause. Look at it again. The first has God created the heavens and earth, but the seconds only listed a 'void and without form earth". What the significance of that? The first has heavens and earth completed while the second is 'damaged earth'. Are you following it/ let me know if my writing is unclear.

     

    #1. Gen 1:3 is the recreation of the damaged earth.

             A. The reason evolutions disagree with christians timeline is because most christians count their centuries back to the damaged earth, which usually around 6,000 years or so.

     

             B.The science timeline of earth's age is in the millions is due to the timeline between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. In other words, God exists in eternity (or from age to age, or centuries to centuries)

     

             C. The bible doesn't have any documents of dinasaurs or evolved men, but science has evidence of skeletons of such creatures. Gen1:1 and Gen 1:2 is the most probable place it can fit into biblical accounts. So why didn't God have it written? Don't know, not god.

     

              D. I also have a 'theory' how the earth was damged, very similiar to 'big bang' but from a theological bent.

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