Dual Citizenship

Please join me in voting affirmatively for the constitutional amendment to allow for dual citizenship. We were fearful of something that we were not fully understand before when this issue was voted on and defeated twice in the past. I hope that the Con Amend team from the President's Office, when they start doing their job, will do a better job educating the people on the legal, economic, educational, etc. benefits of dual citizenship. Speaking of better educating the public the issues, I am wondering what the Executive is doing waiting because proper public awareness should have started shortly after the law was passed on March 18, 2016 (approving to present the issue to the voters in March 2017). Poor public awareness programs in the past were the reasons for the past two failures.
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Comments

  • You guys have like seven months to get the word out. Wow! I didn't know this was out out back in March. Ariigado koai mas MicroSpring2014 for the 'heads up'.
  • edited March 16
    Kaselehlie, ran alem, mogethin, and lenwo....Let me elaborate on some disadvantages of the idea of dual citizenship. As a dual citizen, you are bound by the laws of two countries, and either has the right to enforce its laws on you. For example, If you commit a crime (or are accused of committing a crime), determining under which country’s laws you should be prosecuted can get complicated. If you are abroad, the other country may hinder the U.S. government’s efforts to help you. Your options for assistance may be limited or even non-existent. While there are numerous benefits to dual citizenship, the disadvantages should be considered carefully before launching the long, complicated process of achieving that status. Because dual citizenship is complex and the rules and laws regarding citizenship vary from one country to the next I suggest that you consult with qualified experts, including tax accountants and experienced citizenship lawyers to elaborate and provide adequate elucidation of the disadvantages of dual citizenship…. Hehehe, I will provide the advantages later in the discussion.

    Ni Wahu,

    asaf

  • When talking about crimes, you have two kinds in English common law jurisdictions like ours, Americans, Fijians, etc., we are talking about always two kinds: malum in se (crimes that are inherently evil in all societies like murder, rape, etc.) and there is malum prohibitum (crimes that are crimes depending on your jurisdiction like use of marijuana which is a crime in Iowa but not in Colorado). Any crimes committed in each country is the problem of that jurisdiction unless the crime itself straddles the borders (i.e. drug trafficking between Pohnpei and Colorado) but even then the location of the suspect will usually determine who gets to get a crack at suspect first if the facts so warrant. This is already true even without dual citizenship say between U.S. and the FSM. So we must eliminate the concerns related to both types of crimes in the conversation of good or bad reasons when dealing with dual citizenship.
  • NI wahu microspring2014 I only used crime as an example to elaborate my point with regard to disadvantages of dual citizenship, and I end my posting by saying that I will provide advantages later in the discussion. No worries my friend, I am on your side but we need to present to our people both disadvantages and advantages of the proposed bill for educational purposes and awareness.
  • I agree that we should see both. However, I am yet to see one disadvantage. As a concerned person, I will still look but I might be blinded because of how critical this matter is at this time when we have thousands of U.S. born Micronesians that are now being told to pick which to follow. Of course they want their identity as Micronesians protected and maintained but at the same time, health and education shows that the world is flocking to the U.S. We would be fools not to take the best advantages. The status quo of the Compact has lost is original intent to be a bilateral agreement and it now treated as a welfare package, putting our people in a sad status. There is a misconception that it will take out lands away because Americans will become citizens and then buy lands. But know that land ownership is not based on citizenship because Pohnpei, Yap and Kosrae limit ownership to those from those jurisdictions. In Pohnpei, only pwulidak can own land so not all FSM citizens can own land. That concern is truly a misconception. I am yet to see how this argument is formulated and on what basis. Anyway, the benefits of dual citizenship that Congress passed and will be sent to the voters will affect FSM citizens that can also be U.S. citizens for better schools, officer status in the military, security clearance for better pay, be "hook babies" for parents who cannot become U.S. citizens (why not as everyone is doing it) and so forth. We must keep in mind, even U.S. permits dual citizenship.
  • Those born in Fiji, Japan, etch can enjoy both those countries and FSM as well.
  • The only disadvantage is our own fear to take sensible risks on issues we are uncomfortable with or unaccostomed to. The benefits of DC far outweight any perceived disadvantages. When the blood in you is all Micro RED, nothing will get in the way...so yes loyalty will remain even under DC status.
  • Saka, thank you for chiming in. For others, please note that the idea of DC is not complex at all. It permits a citizen of a country to be a citizen of at least one other country and this can only happen to a few that have certain facts and law lined up for them right (place of birth, citizenship of two parents, citizenship of adoping parents, military service, etc.). So please note that this status will not be available for everyone. It is for those with parents from two countries or those born while staying in the host country to enjoy citizenships of both counties. That is it. Others may seek naturalization with another country but that option is not automatic because it would be subject to internal laws of that country. Again, it is not complex. We just need education of the public.
  • Can you tell me more about pwulidak
  • ARTICLE 3
    Citizenship

    Section 1. Citizens and Pweldak on the Effective Date of this Constitution.
    (1) A person who is a legal resident of Pohnpei is a citizen and pweldak of Pohnpei if either of his parents at the time of his birth was a citizen and pweldak of Pohnpei.

    (2) A person who was a citizen or pweldak of the local governments in Pohnpei immediately prior to the effective date of this Constitution is a citizen and pweldak of Pohnpei while a legal resident of Pohnpei.

    Section 2. Citizens on the Effective Date of this Constitution.
    A person who was a citizen or a legal resident of Pohnpei on the effective date of this Constitution is a citizen of Pohnpei while a legal resident of Pohnpei.
  • ARTICLE 12

    Section 2. Acquisition of Permanent Interest in Real Property.
    The acquisition of permanent interest in real property shall be restricted to Ponapean citizens who are also pwilidak of Pohnpei, as specified under Article 3 of this Constitution.
  • Dual citizenship is the way to go in this modern world. Let's roll.
  • rather give my saleng walek heed on more versions to this important subject.
  • Mmmm ssearcher1 sa pwal ngau ren ena "saleng walek"....

  • I can't have the same heart for two countries. Thus, I am against dual citizenship. It's as if I'm having an affair outside of my marriage. Honest honest, ai tong ngonuk FSM upwe uwei tori peiasei!
  • The US does not recognize dual citizenship so if you are in the US and are using your US citizenship, you are pretty much recognized as a US citizenship. Thus if you claim that you are not, then in the eyes of their laws, you are not. All the laws that applies to you will be dependent on what citizenship you put on your paperwork which will be very black and white, no exceptions. I think that is an easier way to look at it. You cannot go back and forth claiming one citizenship over the other, under different circumstances or situation because it does not work that way, especially in the US or any other country that does not recognize dual citizenship. You are required to claim only one citizenship at a time.
  • I am sure there are requirements and restrictions to becoming citizen of a country. Like in the case of FSM, FSM wouldn't go shopping for people to become its citizens. One must meet constitutional requirements. As well, there are certain criteria that are mandated by respective constitutions of the nations involved. One must meet these criteria prior to becoming citizen of that country. The US, for example, may accept FSM citizens to becoming a US citizen after serving an X period of time in the US Armed Forces, and maybe others such as by birth in US political juriadictions. Likewise a person having one or both parents with FSM citizenship may, if desire retain FSM citizenship even if birthplace is outside of the FSM.

    DUAL CITIZENSHIP may be a choice. If one meets the criteria of dual citizenship and prefers to be a dual citizen, he/she/hshe may do so. If not, be as you are.

    My own thinking. Please educate me on this. I'd like to be a double citizen, of FSM and Russia.
  • edited July 2016
    I have grown children who were born outside of FSM and are of age but did not denounce their birthplace citizenship nor have they been registered as FSM citizens. I fear they will not be able to own their supposedly rightful pieces of land estates because of some local law that prohibit non citizen to own land in FSM.

    There may also be more like me.

    Remember, one does not have to be a dual citizen if one does not want to be.

    PLEASE SUPPORT DUAL CITIZENSHIP
  • edited July 2016
    Good info you guys are sharing here. Thank you!

    My son is having a tough time between choosing the FSM losing his US Air force Academy scholarship, or US and lose grandma and grandpa(his saying) and continuing on to Colorado Springs CO to start school. He is set on losing his scholarship if it comes down to it.

    Ariigado.
  • Belas you are absolutely wrong - US is the champion of dual citizenship. Many Americans are dual citizens. This is a sensitive subject for many like Tokyo and thousands of others. This is how small knowledge can be very dangerous. Don't spread lies.

    Insurance, being a citizen of two places does not mean you need to split your loyalty. U.S. Senate, U.S. House and the Obama Administration has people with dual citizenship. The general public has millions with dual citizenship.
  • Past and Present:

    1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
    2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
    3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
    4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
    5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
    6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
    7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
    8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
    9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
    10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
    11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
    12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
    13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
    14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
    15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
    16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
    17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
    18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
    19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
    20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
    21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
    22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
    23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
    24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
    25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
    26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
    27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
    28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
    29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
    30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
    31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
    32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
    33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
    34. Federal Reserve Chair – Janet Yellen
    35. Federal Reserve Vice-Chair – Stanley Fischer

    Current (and past) Members of Senate:


    • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
    • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
    • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
    • Representative Howard Berman (California)
    • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
    • Representative Susan Davis (California)
    • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
    • Representative Bob Filner (California)
    • Representative Barney Frank (Former) (Massachusetts)
    • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
    • Representative Jane Harman (California)
    • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
    • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
    • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
    • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
    • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
    • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
    • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
    • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
    • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
    • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
    • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
    • Representative Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania)
    • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
    • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
    • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
    • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
    • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
    • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)



    House of Representatives:


    • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
    • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
    • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
    • Representative Howard Berman (California)
    • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
    • Representative Susan Davis (California)
    • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
    • Representative Bob Filner (California)
    • Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
    • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
    • Representative Alan Grayson (Florida)
    • Representative Jane Harman (California)
    • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
    • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
    • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
    • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
    • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
    • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
    • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
    • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
    • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
    • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
    • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
    • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
    • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
    • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
    • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
    • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
    • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)
  • Those are only the "important Americans" with dual citizenship. Many countries allow this. FSM needs to realize this needs of this modern world and stop backward thinking.

    By the way, this is the list of just American-Israelites. The list is longer for American-Europeans and very long for Asian-Americans.
  • So in my entry/immigration documents what would I indicate - as being a dual citizen - under 'country of citizenship'? Like you said, Belas, one cannot go back and forth with their citizenship.
  • Sinbad, seriously, that is a concern? When coming to FSM say you are FSM citizen. When entering the U.S. and other big counties say that you are a U.S. citizen. Like a said, any counties including their list of leader do exactly like this. Hell, some U.S. senators caste their votes in foreign countries. Like Saka, said, we are too afraid of anything new. We must see the best things and take it and leave out the bad things. Dual citizenship will improve many things for our people.
  • Microspring I think you should be a member of the task on dual citizenship formed by the national government. President Christian if you are reading this please ask Microspring to be part of the team educating about the benefits of dual citizenship. I have no idea who this guy is but he makes a lot of sense. You can ask around who he is. I know he is a lawyer somewhere in Kolonia. Look for him.
  • Go check your facts. The US does not allow dual citizenship.
  • There is no actual law that permits it. I understand that and I will give you that. But it is a guilty secret that even their lawmakers are championing. Millions of Americans have two passports despite their no actual law that permits it. That is a fact.
  • I looked it up also. This is from the State Department website:

    U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality.
  • Yes, I also look it up Microspring and concur with you.
  • Thank you microspring. I did not say that is an issue. I am merely asking whether to be honest and put both. lol...When I said, 'back and forth,' I meant switching from one citizenship to another. But thank you, anyway.

    And now that I have just learned there is no mention of dual citizenship in any of the places discussed here, I feel reluctant to like the idea. I guess this is a natural feeling that I have since I have no knowledge in immigration policies for me to defend my children should they be faced with challenges while crossing a border in which they are also citizen.

    Please help, does having a passport of that country mean one is a citizen?
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