ISOKELEKEL WAS A MARSHALLESE

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  • edited June 2013
    Who said we lost our ways of sailing the ocean. For your info learing things by memory is simple. Try making a map of the ocean and it swells,currents and distance of islands from one another. That's what the marshallese stick chart is all about. The stick chart was more advanced then the maps back in the days. The marshallese art of meto(navigation)is still alive. why proof to you guys we know how to when marshallese are famous for sailing all over micronesia. But the truth is Marshallese navigation is considered as a secret that only marshallese can learn. we don't need to brag abbout sailing cause we already did and done that centuries ago while you folks have just recently started.
  • Started ?? Really ?? Its okay yhu dnt have to believe if yhu dnt like, but really map ?? Our polu dnt need no map, our maps are in the sky, the wind nd the ocean. We not like yhu guys who needs some stick chart with stones on it. Nd just for yhur info we ddnt just sailed through Micronesia, we sailed throughout the whole pacific, we just nvr reached yhur shores because theres nothing there to optain from yhur flat small islands.

    Fact*
  • edited June 2013
    You don't get it. The stick chart is used by marshallese as a refrence to where to sail and how far the destination is and what best sea lanes to take. Reading stars and skies and clouds is also known by our navigators. There are also sea marks that our navigators have identified to let em know what part if the ocean they are at.@ There are also chants that tells us how to sail to pohnpei,mokil and kosrae. The diiference between the way my people navigate is that they made stick charts a sign of a more advance navigation technique. The stick chart has been acknowledged as better then the maps of the Europeans in the 1800s. By the way it was not cause your ancestors had nothing they wanted in our islands but its because they feared to sailed into waters which marshallese sailed.
  • Just get the fact that no other pacific island or groups nvr sailed yhur way because its just emptyness.
    Why ddnt our ancesters get to come in contact with each other so we can see whos the best, but its ohkay we knw for a fact that none of yollz nvr wanted to step on our shores because yhur ancesters knew they would die.
  • Wow!! Interesting guys. 
  • Really pekalong ??? Lol
  • Folueisomw,
    That saying that "they have nothing to gain from those small flat islands" is a another way of saying "they feared the natives of those small flat islands".

    As for nothing comes from this small flat islands is wrong. The pandanus tree was brought into kosrae by marshallese,from kosrae it spread to pohnpei,chuuk and the rest. Pearls,South pacific pearls have been grown and harvested in Namorik atoll for centuries by Marshallese.

    As for our ancestors never met one another is a lie. Chuukese and Marshallese have met one another in a field of battle and it was the chuukese who lost. Don't wolaiens speak the truckic(chuukese)language ? The wolaens came thru our islands and started a war with a chief named loeak and those wolaens were all killed by this chief and his man near jaluit and killi atolls. This defeat of your people is glorified in our songs till this day. Same thing happened to the yapese when they sailed thru our islands .
  • Reaper thanx for brieving me on that. Yes woleaians are chuukese by blood nd culture, but yapese politically.
    Nd yes i sure do would believe that would've happend back then. The thing is we are all seafearers !! We just ddnt pop up nd bang !! Chuuk !! No !! We came from somewhere just like marshalese, pohnpeians, kosreans, nd everyone els came from somewhere.
    We are Nuclear Micronesia.
  • Are we still on the thread? It seems that we're off from the thread. Woleaians and Isokelekel is way far from each other, yea?
  • Yhur right on that pekalong.
  • Reaper
    you mentioned that marshallese have identify sea marks that let them know where they are and also chants that tell them how to sail to pohnpei and kosrae etc...how come we have never herd of this?
  • Pawnstar, like i said this are knowledge that marshallese consider secret. There are three types of stick charts,the first type shows how far to travel,the second shows ocean currents,the third is the most secretive one that the chiefs have forbid marshallese to show outsiders and this chart shows how to sail from the Ralik chain to mokil,pinglep,kosrae and pohnpei. The navigational chant is also forbidden by the chiefs to outsiders. As for sea marks to tell us where is this,the sea mark of mokil is a sea foam and that is all I'm gonna say.
  • Wow!!! Interesting fictions.
  • Reaper I want to also mention some thing on one of stick chart called WAPEPE and its a study of a ocean currents. In Marshallese history ( Bwebwenato ) says that we got this technic of the WAPEPE from two Yapese man who says were drifted away on the shore of Namdrik Atoll. Usually when a stranger landed on the shore of island he/she are immediately get kill, but this time the two Yapese men were spare by a woman by the name of Litarmelu who took the Yapese men to her care and eventually married one of them name soupepah in marshallese joupepa. So, Litarmelu and Joupepa got a son and the two Yapese men taught him everything they knew about sailing especially the technic of WAPEPE .It is say that only the people of Namdrik and the descent of Litarmelu were allowed to learnd this secret
  • Sailing and was taught from generation to generation. That's why the island of Namdrik is call Alele eo or Alele eo Namdrok drapiji. Which means Namdrik Atoll it's where all the Marshallese secret Traditonal are kept. So, in this history it says they were Yapese but who knows they probably from the outer islands of Yap and Chuuk, in Marshallese we call the chuukese RiRuk till today we still call them RiRuk. So, in any way we ( Marshallese ) got some of their secret traditional sailing from them.. ^#(^ :-/
  • Thank you guys its very interesting but where does Isokelekel in this stick chart called WAPEPE? I thought the thread was about Isokelekel whether he was from the Marshalls or not.
  • He maybe depending where he was frm. It he was from the outlying atollz in Yap. Then he definitely will be a Chuukese.
  • Well, Pek I think this thread is just theory and its mean its open suggestion and speculation either Isokelkel is Kiribati,Marshallese, Kosraen or maybe from Polynesia..who knows? But all I do know and it's written down in both history on Marshall and Pohnpei. And that there were some clans on Pohnpei that did came from the Marshall Islands such as the sounkawad and Rilujen Namu which later change their name to Liptahn..There were also Marshallese that later sails through the islands of Kapilong such as Pinglap, Mokil, Kapingarangi, Kosrae, and possibly Chuuk and Yap..The reason why I include chuuk and yap is that we ( Marshallese ) called mountain TOL but in the Marshall Islands we have no mountains. So, their is some speculation there either they sail all the to chuuk as we know their is island in chuuk name TOL. But it's just some of my theory added to the facts of some of our history..
  • Tol is the biggest island in chuuk. We also have mountains that we call Tol'omwán, Tol'achaw nd we have clans here who came from both Kosrae nd Pohnpei like one clan we call Fánimei, literally meaning "under breadfruit tree" nd we also have one clan āchaw wich also means mountain also from Kosrae.
    We have dffrnt ways of saying mountain.
    Achaw (highest mountain)
    Chuuk (mound or valley)
    Tol (as in mountains like Tol'omwán nd Tol'achaw).
  • Folueisomw, friendly advice, please RETREAT and RETHINK. Oh by the way, I'm old enought to be your great, great grandparent or anything grand.
  • Ok..ok friends! But, may I ask our brother RiYokwe to give the Marshallese name of Pandanus? Pohnpei native got their name from where it was first brought from and planted here on the highest and biggest rainforest of all the Micronesian islands all the way from Marianas down to Palau and up to the mid-central islands including our beatiful beaches of the eastern low lying islands RMI so to speak.

    Cheers!

  • the general name for pandanus in kajin majol (Marshallese) :  bōb / büb
  • Thank pbien 16! So my friend how is that majol native tongue name relates to Pohnpei native name for Pandanus "Kipar" or "Kupar" which we believe it is the name where it was given by the outlying atoll of Pohnpei like mokiloa and pingelap?

  • Hello forumers, I came in here for one reason and that is that Isokelekel came from Marshalls.  I beg the differ on this issue for that name originates from the Island of Pingalap.  Iso-meaning king's son and kelekel is name of a vine that was made into a lei and was presented to the man in question when he was recruiting soldiers for his journey to conquer Pohnpei.  He recruited three men from Pingalap, and they are Nahnesen, Salapas, and Nahnparadak.  oh and btw I mentioned a king's son, because he was the son of the lord of thunder, Luhknansapwe, a demi god.  I agree with the person that posted that there are people coming from Marshalls and Kiribati that they are the Liptain clan.
  • Chuukese word for pandanus is fach or far...

    Tongan: fa

    Samoan: fala

    Hawaiian: hala

    And there's a Chuukese clan associated with the pandanus tree that played a major role in the history of Chuuk  before and during the Breadfruit Revolution.

  • Chuukese word for pandanus is fach or far...

    Tongan: fa

    Samoan: fala

    Hawaiian: hala

    And there's a Chuukese clan associated with the pandanus tree that played a major role in the history of Chuuk  before and during the Breadfruit Revolution.

    Machew, why is it that chuukese language reprisent both micronesian nd polynesian languages ??
    Nd why is it that we had samoan cheifs frm our islands back then like chief Mailo from Wēno.
  • Folu, it's a small world and like you said, "foun kun mi papas".

     

  • yes,yes, indeed. thank yhu.
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