• It all depends if the masses or people support him.
  • Isokelekel could not possibly come from Mwajel because he was 6'2". Physical average of a Mwajelese is 4'2" and 198 lbs. In short Marshallese are short and stocky as a result of living conditions and diet. They are stocky because they paddle a lot and eat a lot of coconuts.

    Have you seen pictures and drawing of marshallese that were drawn by the missionaries and western explorer.?
    They were taller then marshallese now days and resemble their cousins in kiribat and polynesia. The people of marshall are of the polynesian stock cause they moved into marshall from northern polynesia. People of the FSM area are of the pygymy stock it means they were the original settler of marshall islands but were pushed out of marshall by the people who are now marshallese into western micronesia.
  • Even if Marshallese were and are that small they still kicked the shit out of the so called giants of kapilong.
  • edited May 2013

    ahaha, glad I got your attention. This is the reason why I made those comments because you people know so little about Pohnpei that now you are claiming Isokelekel came from the tiny atolls of Majel. Funny how you now claim that original majelese are of the Polynesian ancestry. The missionaries arrived in Micornesia a little over two centuries ago and you want me to believe that back then these so called Poly-Majelese were the ones who greeted them? lol I guess they died out eh? lol I didn't know that Kabua was of the Polynesian stock as You must be tall as your ancestors...:)

    I agree that the Majelese were the first settlers of Micronesia, but when the Pohnpeians arrived in Pohnpei they noticed the tropical beauty of Pohnpei and they chased out the Majelese. These original settlers were chased out to sea and realizing that their once beautiful island, with abundance of food, was no longer theirs because of defeat by the new comers, they migrated to the most hostile region in the Pacific, the atolls. You gotta admit, the strong gets the best and the weak gets the worst. Quite a sad ending....  ;))

  • Marshall Islands were settled initially around the beginning of the Christian era by Micronesians who may have been from the early Polynesian (Lapita) culture. Radiocarbon dates from earth-oven charcoal samples that were excavated in Laura village on Majuro yielded dates of about 30 BCE and 50 CE. The early Marshall Islanders were skilled navigators and made long canoe voyages among the atolls.
    -source: Britannica encyclopedia

    The Lapita people are the ones called now days as Polynesians. Is a fact that those of eastern Micronesia(Kiribat,Nauru,Marshall's and Kosrae) came out of Polynesia and it also proofs that this people who came out of Polynesia drove out the first settler into western Micronesia(pohnpei,chuuk,yap).Ever wonder why the people of western Micronesia never sailed east but always sailed west and those from the east(marshall,kosrae,Kiribati) always sailed west to make war(isokelkel sailed from the east and conquered pohnpei/The sounkawads from rahdak chain conquered sokeh and nett/The kiribatese sailed to pohnpei and were able to attained the title of nanwarki.)All in all the easterner islanders came west and imposed their will on the islands and people of the wesstern islands.
  • edited May 2013
    The lapita pottery was found on Pohnpei too, but unlike you we want no claim in this nonsense Polynesian ancestry wannabe, because we are proud Micronesians. You, of all Micronesians, should be the last to even claim polynesian roots because of your physical features. Nonetheless, do claim so as you wish so you can make a mockery out of yourselves. Ask yourself this, why is it that out of all the big islands in Micronesia, your ancestors settled in the atolls? My conclusion is that it was not of their choice, they were chased there...In other words, my ancestors forcefully put your ancesors there...
  • isokelekel might have been USOkelekel. a Polynesian.

  • edited May 2013
    Nahnihd SAID:
    Ask yourself this, why is it that out of all the big islands in Micronesia, your ancestors settled in the atolls? My conclusion is that it was not of their choice, they were chased there...In other words, my ancestors forcefully put your ancesors there...

    We ain't claiming to be Polynesians cause we marshallese are who we are and that is marshallese. The migration process in eastern Micronesia is from my islands to yours, the conquerers of your islands are always coming from Kiribati and marshall to yours, your ancestors considered the islands of Marshall's as sacred and where their gods came from, If the westerners didn't discovered Micronesia and left us be Kosrae,pohnpei,mokil,pinglep,kapingamarangi would have been overrunned by marshallese chiefs and their warriors. What am I saying kapingamarangi,pinglep,mokil were under marshallese dominion but the Europeans interfered.part of pohnpei was conquered by a marshallese clan and so was kosrae. It was a blessing the Europeans came cause if they didn't kosrae,pinglep,mokil,kapingamarangi and all of pohnpei would have been under marshallese rule.
  • edited May 2013
    I shall not make comment on the clan you lay claim to having conquered parts of Pohnpei because it is obvious that you don't know the facts tied to this episode in Pohnpei history. In short, let me just say that as a Pohnpeian, it is unwise to tell stories of other clans. I join your discussion simply to point out that you are an outsider with little knowledge in our past and whether it's wise of you to make claims to events of the past in Pohnpei, it is for us Pohnpeians to judge. From my standpoint, you are making a mockery out of your own self by fabricating facts, which are unsupported. Talk about your little atolls and leave the story telling of Pohnpei to the pwilidaks who know best...
  • edited May 2013
    As far as your claim that Pohnpei would have been ruled by the Marshallese chiefs, answer me this. How can little people like you ever imagine you can conquer Pohnpei. The only tie Marshallese have with the Pohnpei proper is the women who married into our past clans...
  • Nahnihd..!!
        You talk like you pohnpeian are all tall and big in stature...but not my friend, you pohnpeian are just like us marshallese small in stature or I may say little people big world...Why do think they called us micronesian its because our islands are small and even our people...Same as  with all the other micronesians such as Chuukese,Yapese,Palauan,Kosraean and Chamorros...I think the only Micronesian that are kinda big in stature are the Kiribati its because their more Polynesian breed then other micronesians...The Kiribati people are mixture of micronesian and Polynesian and its does mention in their history...So,don't try to say that you pohnpeian are big people then us marshallese cuz as far as I know we have the same amount of big and and small people..What don't you see those small body and big head pohnpeian that lives in kitti pohnpei and that are some on sokehs too..Gheess come on mann try not to cmapare people in here cuz there is nothing different but the same....Peace my brother from kapilong
  • is Certain versions indicate the Thunder God fled to the sky world of East Katau. [14] Having fled, he impregnated a barren human of his own Dipwenpahnmei (Under-the-breadfruit-tree) clan named Lipahnmei by feeding her a lime. This incestuous union produced the semi-divine Isokelekel, who in the womb knew his destiny of vengeance. [
    -Source Wikipedia

    East katau has been acknowledged by pohnpeian historians as a place where the gods of pohnpei came from. Ain't it a coincidence People of olden pohnpei consider mwashel as where their gods and ancestors came from.

  • You and your source are wrong when you claim that Luhk Nahnsapwe fed the mother of Isokelekel lime. Ask any Pohnpeian how the lime was used and you shall know. For Pohnpeians when we refer to Katau Peidak, with respect to Isokelekel's journey, we are referring to Kosrae. Name me one Pohnpeian God who is from Majel.
  • edited May 2013
    All of them, mwasjel as you call it is where your historians from pohnpei say is where their gods and ancestors are from. Get a pen and a notebook and write this down. Isokelkels mother was called LI-pahnmei,the Li is a prefex that is used only in the mwajel to describe a Female. Lipahnmeis clan(sou is how pohnpeians say clan,Jowi is mwajeleze way of sayig clan) you taking notes?...listen carefully now cause I'm only gonna say this once ha....her clan is called Dipwenpahnmei in mwajel its called Dipenma. When you pohnpeians translate it to English is called underneath the breadfruit tree,in mwajeleze it translate into by/near the breadfruit tree. You got that. It means the language spoken in Mwajel is where your language is sprouts from. Long time ago we spoke one language but over the centuries it split,we stuck to the original lingo while y'all got diluted. From the east to west is how Easter Micronesia got peopled. From east all the great conquerors came to the west and wrote their name on the history wall of Kosare,pohnpei,mokil,pinglep,kapingamarangi,Nokuro. And they were all from Lolelaplap and known by those who feared them as MWAHJELESE....Class dismiss.
  • edited May 2013

    Mind you, linguistics is a whole different topic, but one that most of us Micronesians share in common. So you know Lih or Li, depending on geographical phonology, is woman in Pohnpei as well. It obvious that you are confused with the origin of our migrations in the Micronesian region. Most scholars who have done intense studies in the Pacific are not in agreement with the early migrations of the Pacific. Which ever source you choose to believe, not all will agree with you. For instance, some believe that the lapita migration originated from the Solomons via Vanuatu, with the next wave travelling to Polynesia, Kiribati, and Kosrae. From Kosrae some sailed west to Pohnpei and Chuuk, while others sailed to the Marshalls. Another study showed that the migration to the North Pacific came in two waves, one to Eastern Micronesia (Kiribati) and one to Central Micronesia (which also include Marshalls to the North) The origin of this migration is believed to be the Solomons. (Western Micronesia is another story which should be left with its own people to discuss)


    Whichever study is accurate, we will never know, but there is one thing in common- that we all share similarities in our languages, Pohnpei and Chuuk being the closest. When I say 'we', I mean Marshall Is., Pohnpei, Kosrae, and Chuuk. In essence, you are quite over your head when you claim to school me by saying that my Pohnpeian Language is an offshoot of yours. As a matter of fact, it shows how uneducated you are...I prefer to resort to our history by way of oral stories passed down by ancestors, you seem to take comfort in your Wikipedia sources, etc...

  • edited May 2013
    You have not answered my question, which God from the Marshalls do Pohnpeians worship in the past? Furthermore, what facts can you provide me which will convince me, a Pohnpeian who's ancestors were believed to come from this conqueror of Pohnpei, Isokelekel, that indeed Isokelekel came from Majel?
  • POHNPEI,Is the name the Europeans gave the people of central Marianas. Why,they never travel out their islands.
  • We not that,U the kine!
  • Isokelekel- Marshallese?  Saudelohr was the one who more resembled the Marshallese of the day- crushed under the hand of Lodup along the river now called Lehn Mokil.
  • Whoami! Pohnpei stands or means "Pohn Pei" two words mate that were merged to make one. In fact, it means in Englishe or any international interpretation "On Sacred Alter". So, native of Pohnpei during the spirit God name "kerehs leng" our island home (kahlap) ever since found and named it Pohn Pei and not named by foreigners. This is how I and any pwilidak or uhdak (indegenious/native) of Pohnpei today always know from their old folks. Thank you.
  • edited May 2013
    Reason y I say isokelekel was a marshallese is because your own legends and oral history said he(isokelekel)was a foreigner. Its this legends and oral history that said he came from the EAST. East of pohnpei you have kosrae farther East of that you have Kiribati and beyond Kiribati there is LOLELAPLAP(Now known as RMI). Lolelaplapians history and stories says that the islands that are due to the RALIK(Sunset,Western)were regularly visited and attacked by our ancestors hence the name KAPILONG. Kapilong is the name our earliest ancestors gave to the islands that are now formed and known as FSM. Till this day the islands which the Westerners call FSM is still referred by us as Kapilong. Kapilong means Highlands or Mountainous islands. Thru out history of our islands and yours we are the ones who always sailed west also the i-kiriabtese. Here are my points to my theory.(1)From times immomorial people of Lolelaplap knew where kosrae,mokil,pinglep and pohnpei were.(2)Marshallese were known to travel well outside of their realm and afar.(3)it is from the EAST to WEST is how the migration of people moved and settled Kiribati,Marshall's,Kosrae,Pohnpei,Chuuk.(4)Our languages share roots words(RMI Armej(people),PNI-AHRAMEJ(people),CHUUk-ARMAJ(people).

    It is generally known in Pohnpei that Katau Peidak refers to the east as far as Kosrae and beyond, and Katau Peidi refers to the West as far as Yap. Isokelekel who invaded the reign of the Saudeleurs came from Katau Peidak."

    Like I said this is my theory and mine alone.
  • edited May 2013
    If I remember correctly, the stories describe Isokelekel as not a foreigner but rather a dejected royal whose return by invasion was an act of revenge.  The war parties were composed of people's from Kosrae, Pingelap, and Mokil.  The stories/legends may differ slightly island-to-island but one thing jumps out.  Mokilese tradition tells of numerous wars with the war parties of the Iroj to which Mokil eventually fell.  It doesn't make sense that Isokelekel would be Marshallese, aligned with a Mokilese war chief considering the rivalry and warring relationship.  Why would Lodup lend his warriors to the people who are in constant war with him?  I am neither a historian nor an expert, by any measure, on this topic, but from the stories that are told, Isokelekel being Marshallese, considering who he aligned with to wage war seems not just unlikely but a bit of a stretch.  I might be wrong.

    According to our legends, one of the most unsung heroes of the war was the Pingelapese chief Selepas who rallied the warriors to victory at the landing when the Saudelohr's men repelled their initial assault.  In the east (Mokil and Pingelap) the story, at least the ones I was raised on made little menton of Isokelekel but rather highlighted the accomplishments of Lodup and Selepas.  Selepas rallied and save the initial assault, Lodup and his men tracked and ended, in single combat, the last of the Saudelohrs.  
  • No whoami! Pohnpei was discovered and built by "Sapwkini" someone who travel from the sea where extact point of disembarking land history was and is still silence on that. Just saying that if you have this in your legend then what you and the rest are sayin maybe rigth. You see, all you and other brothers saying that most of the names we have was originated maybe not quite same spelling and pronunciation but if Pohnpei was conquered by your sea travelers, how and why did they want to go back to where they came from when they had the best of the western islands? I mean do you really believe that is how things happened?

    I see there is no sense of finding or landing on a good ground and just decided to leave it and go back to where water and lands mass are little to do everything they wanted. I believe, they left either by force or native of Pohnpei fought them and re-captured their ruleship and only women were left behind and made the decendants of the sounkawad which how this clan being claimed originated from Mwahsel (General Marshall ) foreigner who came and captured the radak and the eastern islands.  Just think of it. Marshallese going back to lowly and fresh water islands and top of that very dry and hot. I don't think a great and wise warrior could even want to go backward rather would stay put and live on an island like Pohnpei. Cheers!

  • What is the original native name for the Marshall Islands? 
  • Xectms said:
    "It doesn't make sense that Isokelekel would be Marshallese, aligned with a Mokilese war chief considering the rivalry and warring relationship. Why would Lodup lend his warriors to the people who are in constant war with him?"

    It makes perfect sense. The saudeluers were at first humble and gracious rulers but over time they(saudeluers)dynasty became tyrannic.Lodup lent his warriors to isokelekel cause they both considered the saideluera as their common enemy. Ever herd the saying"THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND".

    ssercher1 said:
    "Pohnpei was conquered by your sea travelers, how and why did they want to go back to where they came from when they had the best of the western islands? "

    Who said they left? They stayed and assimilated to pohnpeian society. Their descendants are known as pohnpeians.

    ssercher1 said:
    " I believe, they left either by force or native of Pohnpei fought them and re-captured their ruleship and only women were left behind and made the decendants of the sounkawad which how this clan being claimed originated from Mwahsel"

    The sounkawads came to pohnpei by a act of nature what we would say by accident. Their destination wasn't pohnpei but the island of jalooj in the Ralik. They were blown of course and by chance landed on pohnpei. When they arrived they were assailed by the lisialap clan that ruled nett and sokeh,this people who came from marshall hid in the valley of nankawad but over the years they grew in numbers and came out of the nankawad valley and made war upon their enemy the lisialap clan,who were defeated and were driven out of sokeh and nett by the people who came from Marshall's. This people took the name of the valley that gave them shelter(nankawad valley).that is why they are known now days as sounkawads.
    What is the original native name for the Marshall Islands? 
    Lolelaplap is the archaic name before westerners decided to call it Marshall islands.
  • Whoami,

    You are presuming Mokilese were under the thumb of the Saudelohrs and defeating the Saudelohrs was a Mokilese necessity.  Having not been there, I can't say with any certainty but it doesn't sound familiar at all.  I still assert, considering I have never heard of anything hinting at the Mokilese being subject to the Saudelohrs, that the alliance seems a stretch.  "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" only makes sense if the Saudelohr was, in fact, an enemy.  The only enemy in the war stories told, at least the remnants I can remember from the ones I heard, were sent by the Irohj.
  • Man like he said is a theory,it means its open for suggestions and speculation either he isokelkel was kosraen,kiribatese or marshallese is a open subject.
  • That story about isokelekel being a exiled prince of pohnpei is a thing pohnpeian made up to cover the truth/facts that they the pohnpeians are a people who always got licked and succumbed to foreigners. Look at the history wall of pohnpei is marked by outsiders who came,saw and conquered. Pohnpei has three ERAS.
    (1)Mwehin Aramas.
    (2)Mwehin Saudeleur.
    (3)Mwehin Nahnmwarki.

    *Mwehin Aramas was the time of peopling of pohnpei.Its the time the pohnpeians were never under foreign rule.

    *Mwehin Saudeleur belong to the saudeleurs,they were the first foreigners to rule pohnpei.

    *Mwehin Nahnmwarki(again pohnpei fell to another outsider) was brought by isokelekel who was a foreigner.

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