Chuukese Standard Writing System

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  • I believe we dont have any standard in writing as well as in spelling in Chuuk. "Nepwin and Nepin", if any ethnic group in Chuuk has the dialects of each of those two words, then I would say I am not worthy to say its wrong or right. But if we have standard in writing and spelling, then we can say its wrong if the spelling and the writing structure dont reflect in the Standard of Writing and Spelling.

    Till today, we dont have standard in WRITING AND SPELLING in Chuuk. We can write and spell words in any dialects but still that is not the standard of writing and reading in CHUUK.

    Again, if we have a Chuukese standard in writing, reading and spelling, then we can correct the writing, reading, and spelling in the Chuukese content of the standard of each area.
  • Drill,

    Kinisou chapur, Drill.
    please all posters, I advise you read Drill's comments. They are all clear and it is what we are looking for. I hope other posters spend some times reading and make sense out of what Drill has posted.

    For now, every Chuukese only writes depend on how they sound out each word. It is why a word may spell differently depending on where you come from.

    POKITEN ACH ANEAN PWE CHUUK EPWE CHU, EPWE EU, EPWE TIPEEU, INA POPUN ACH FAKKUN TUNGOR MAMAW ACH SIPWE ATIPEEU WON CHOK EU NAPANAPAN MAK.

    PLEASE NOTE ABOUT THE PRESENT CHUUKESE ALPHABET FOR NOW. IT WAS DEVELOPED BY FEW CHUUKESE WITH SOME OUTSIDERS. NOW, THERE ARE SOME DIALECTS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE ALPHABET. THERE ARE:

    AAEEIOOUU - OSOWA - PLEASE NOT THAT THE SECOND A, E, O AND U SHOULD HAVE A DIAGRATIC MARK ON TOP WHICH I COULD NOT FIND THE MARK ON MY COMPUTER, THEN THE OSOPIN
    FSKMMWNNGPPWRCHT, THEN THE OSOMWAR, WY. A A E E I O O U U F S K M MW N NG P PW R CH T W Y . THIS NEW ALPHABET EXCLUDED THE LETTERS (L, SH, RH, H, etc.) which is not fair to the regions who include those sounds in their way of talking.

    HOW ABOUT WE FORM A WORKING GROUP THAT WILL INCLUDE REPRESENTATIVE FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT REGIONS IN CHUUK - NORTHERN NAMOENAS, SOUTHERN NAMONEAS, FAICHUK, MORTLOCKS, HALLS AND WESTERN. OR, IF WE PREFER THAT EVERY ISLAND GROUP HAS ITS REPRESENTATIVES. THIS WAY NO DIALECT WILL BE LEFT OUT.

    THEN WE TOGETHER WORK ON LISTING ALL CHUUKESE WORDS IF POSSIBLE. I BELIEVE IT IS JUST A MATTER OF AGREEING ON HOW EACH CHUUKESE WORD WILL BE SPELLED. THIS TIME EACH ISLAND DIALECT WILL BE PRESENTED. THEN WE WORK WITH THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, THEN ON TO THE LEGISLATIVE TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL. THEN ALL SCHOOLS CAN START FOLLOWING IT IN THEIR TEACHING. BOOKS CAN BE THEN PUBLISHED FOLLOWING THESE SPELLING IN WHICH YOUNG AND ADULT WILL HAVE TO LEARN.

    BETTER LATE THAN NEVER!!!!

    MET MEFIOMW?

    Kinisou chapur,
    mar
  • edited June 2009
    Mar:

    With due respect I do not see any need to change (or amalgamate) the current structure of the Chuukese language let alone the variants in dialects, spellings and pronunciations in order to create a system of writing. The suggestion that there should be uniformity in spellings is rather bewildering and unfounded, I believe. We are not part of an imperial culture where there should be a dominant form of writing.

    I have not come across any shred of evidence to suggest that the current Chuukese language is impacting on the learning process or desired educational outcomes of the Chuukese children. In fact the Chuukese language and its variants are part of the history of Chuuk...richness in variety and variety is about unity. Diversity in unity if you may.

    I kinda taken aback and mesmerise when I listen to Chuukese from different regions having conversation with their different language dwangs and twists- so pleasant to listen to.It is music to the ears. In a way it identifies each speaker as to which particular region s/he came from.

    If you introduce a uniform system of writing rest assure that some of the Chuukese dialects will die out and maybe the end of their culture as language resembles culture.
    So let us reconsider this movement towards a dominant system of writing of Chuuk as it can create cultural imperialism in Chuuk itself. No?
  • Samurai,

    Thank you for your comments,
    We are here for any comments, suggestions, recommendations even critisicm.

    My recommentation to you is to read from the beginning of this discussion, so you can get more ideas and understanding of this deliberation. It is not the wish for us to alter any Chuukese dialects, instead we are advocating on how Chuuk can together come up with a uniform way of writing. Let alone all dialects progress in their own unique way of communications.

    From educational perspective, one reason why majority of Chuukese do not do well in today's world, it is because they do not value anything about who they are. One of these is basically no Chuukese child would graduate from high schools mastering the necessary skills in language. What it is evident today, most Chuukese struggle in learning English language with no basis in their own Chuukese language.

    It is one main reason this topic is out, to get attention from any Chuukese who would care enough to comment,.

    Please read from the beginning and come back, we will learn together as we continue.

    Thank you again,
    mar
  • I have started soliciting anyone (Chuukese) who would be interested to pick mind and share what we can do together to put together something regarding how a Standard Chuukese Writing would start.

    So far there are three of us who meet every Tuesday at UH, Manoa at 12:00 noon in the UH Campus Center. We talk and share what we see, feel, and experienc about the need of starting a writing system for Chuuk.

    If you are in Honolulu, and would like to join us, please email us at cholymay@hawaii.edu or yourupi@hawaii.edu and just come. If you are in other countries, just continue with this forum and share with us what you would contribute.

    Kinisou,
    mar
  • edited March 2011
    .
  • edited June 2009
    Marg:

    Thanks for the response. I still do not get the idea you are promoting. As far as I know Chuukese writing standards are based on phonetics. The writings or spellings depend on the regions of Chuuk as reflecting in the dialects e.g- let us say "Sh' "Ch' "R' etc. How does one then standardize the variants and which of the above should be the standard. If for example, "Ch" becomes the standard I would imagine that would be the beginning of an imperialistic version of writing within Chuuk. But if one says that all the dialects and thus spellings should be a part of a Chuukese writing standard, then implicit in it is the existing system of writing anyhow. Why such a change or movement towards a new standard in the first place?

    The dominant language of the world, English, has no standard of writings - example the British and the Americans follow different ways of spellings and grammatical structures. Yet they progress through schools quite successfully and still can talk to each other.

    I think we should think about improving student outcomes on how to master the different spellings in Chuukese language, not by a standardized system of writing. We should expose students that the Chuukese system of writing comes in many forms so that they can appreciate and deal with it properly. Through that awareness they can continue on to the outside world.

    Please do not take my comments as criticism of your efforts but food for thoughts.

    Thanks.
  • Margarita,

    Greeting to you, am not so sure if you're my teacher long time ago. Anyway, I do believe that chuuk doesn't have their own writing system. Based on observation, it seems that all chuukese communicate with each other (paper or email mostly) in any way they want. For instance, couple of words were written in paper by the chuukese seems that they spell differently. For instance, the word "chok", "kapwong", and many more. The word "chok" can be spelled out like "jok" by all the different region in chuuk, except Mortlock which they spelled it out "shok". And the word "kapwong", sometimes they spelled it out like "kapung". Chuukese must know that everytime they write, always remember that some of the vowels letters must have a small dash on top of it. I hope that my input on this topic is relevant to your topic.
  • FSM citizen, a little correction on your so call spelling Bee. it is really depend on what part of mortlock your from. for instance the lower mortlock they will say (kapong) and I think the upper mortlock will say that kapung. and for the word chok. even thou the mortlockese say it as (sh) but still they spell it as (chok) this are the thing we should look at it. the 'okina. apostrophe and the aa. those are the spelling should enforce. especially with the chanting words. there is a lot of different of dialeg we should discuse about.
    1.'ae'a, mongo, mwenge, or cha. this is the main thing Mar should look out for. how each island will pronounce it and the meaning for it.

    here is one thing we should look at it. Faichuk say nois, the whole chuuk state saying semirit. so which one we should use?
    young age some will say eto sa cha,
    fito sa mongo or ito sa 'ae'a( lower mortlock)
    sa no kunou lagoonese
    sa lo urur( morltlockese)

    my only input to this campaign is write your own books and see which books will become more enjoyable to the children and families.

    Mar I suggest you and the educator along with some of the older people to come up with the spelling.

    Mar maybe you should write the chuukese words at the back of the dictionary. and if it successful to the Chuukese then you can start to write stories. let me know how it goes. I don't mind come and share my input. or maybe I could e-mail you sometimes. I lived on the neighbor island but flying is not a problem. I might need a ride from the airport to U.H. I think the time is okay with me, I can fly back on the last flight, or stay over night.
    We really need to work together to encourage parents and children to read, read, read, and read. Thanks again Mar!


    ]thx ♥
  • edited March 2011
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  • Okay here is the problem I see in those words which is post above, How do we know if that is the correct spelling? If you ask one of our elder people and listen carefully do they really say ran anlim, obviously that's how I spell my ran anlim but the question here is what does anlim means? verses annim? 'cause for our language as morlockese alem means good. in lagoon will be annim. it is suppose to say good day, or ran alem. I don't see any meaning of anlim.

    If you separate the words an/lim, I mean I never think about it till this moment, I read the post above. what does an mean. and lim means and verses alem and annim?
    another word (menni)is lagoon words and (menli) most be upper Mortlocks words. for lower mortlock will be (efa).

    We all can come up with words and words and trying to correct something and which we all know that we're not sure which one is correct.
    the best way is to work together as chuukese and come up with words and the right spelling for it. Why don't we work together to help those educator who willing to find solution to our problem, and also willing to educate your love one.

    thx.
    *(*_*)♥♥♥
  • edited March 2011
    .
  • Hi all,

    It is okay to continue sharing your comments base on your own understanding of this topic, but it is also important that we come to a point where something has to be agreed upon.

    From the above comments you have shared, allow me to share something and let me know if this is something that the whole Chuuk will find it peaceful. Let us not forget that in the end we want something for the whole Chuuk to benefit from especially for the sake of our future Chuukese.

    The intention of this topic is to find "ONE" way of writing in our Chuukese language that all Chuukese can use to communicate - writing and reading.

    Allow me to bring to you what it is already in our system that is not well implemented and enformed.

    The Chuukese Alphabet: When the Missionaries came in they introduced the writing system. So, they introduced the letters: A, E, I, O, U, F, S, K, L, M, N, NG, P, R, CH, T, W, Y - So, from generations to generations, the Chuukese have been writing using the above letters and sounds. Then came the 1970s when linguists from outside came and did their studies on our Chuukese language, then they worked with few Chuukese, they added few more letters. Then they added the followings: A, A, E, E, I, O, O, U, U (please note the second vowel after A, E, O and U should add a diagratic mark on top.) F, S, K, N, M, MW, NG, P, PW, R, CH, T, W, Y.
    Please note that our alphabets is based on what sounds the missionaries identified in our Chuukese language. However, one major problem is some of the letter sounds that are used by some other Chuukese were not included. The letter L which is used by all outer islanders, SH by Mortlockese, H, RH, by North West Regions.

    So, my fellow Chuukese, in order to help our task moving on, May I ask that we look at the suggested new Chuukese alphabet-

    A, A, E, E, I, O, O, U, U, F, S, K, L, M, MW, N, NG, P, PW, R, RH, H,CH, SH, T, W, Y. How about looking through these and let's continue to share....(please don't forget to note the second vowel of A, E, O, and U should have a diacratic mark on top, so it can represent the sound a in aat (boy), e in ee (fish hook), o as in oo (fishing line), and u as in uur (lobster).

    Please let us continue,
    mar
  • Please excuse the mis-spell in the above word (enformed). It should have been (enforced).

    Thank you again,
    mar
  • edited March 2011
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  • This is one bad thing of being reluctant and ignorant to the old folks.....
  • ASAF,

    old folks wont be ignored. As I posted above that, Mar should invide the elder or as a matter fact why not Makal. That way our culture and our words wont mixed up with the modern words.
    for instance( wecheto) verses fito or pwereto. It is their words which was passed down from their generations to generation. We shouldn't ignored our old folks, we should acknowlege them, honor them for not loosing our languages and cultures for 2000 years ago, they taught us with their mouth but not on the paper and which is very amazing that we all can comprehen the words by spelling their words the way we want do. but now it's our turn to honor them with respect to consider them as we move on this new spelling forms.

    Thx
    *(*_*)♥
  • onenightstand_tongom

    I think your nick on this forum is a good example of this topic. I suggested that you put the letter "w" after the letter "m" which will spell "tongomw", right?
  • *umm, pidgin chuukese, or standard chuukese. *lol Kidding! Tirow sefan. Mar, met mei wor ew sakkun mak meinisin chok chuuk ra tongeni weweiti regardless of their regional background? Ren mo iei, either in written or oral communication. Ika mei wor iwe ach ina "neutrual chuukese language". Ina met sipwe aa lon documents. A men fen weires ai upwe weweiti the intention, ika ifa usun an epwe anisi kich as a state. I really am trying, but I still am not seeing the importance of it. Well, I should ask, it is worth investing in it, time and financial wise?

    Ian sipwe aa ian, me ifan usun an epwe anisi fefeitan fanuwach. This is 2009>>> moving forward, ifan nenian?

    Tirow sefan.
  • If we standardize the spellings and writings then how do we deal with the grammatical issues? Grammar and spellings are different. Grammar deals with the proper way of saying things in sentence forms etc. You may know how to spell words but what is the use if one cannot use it in sentence correctly with all the rules for punctuations etc.
  • FSM citizen
    lol, thanks for the correction. So I guess I need spelling classes too, yeah? lol.

    *(*_*)♥♥♥
    tongomw? Not bad, but I already baptised on tongom.lol
  • Kapong ngeni all,

    Pwan sopwei ai kinisou ngeni ami monison mei achocho isetiw masowan ami aninnis won ei tungor. Pwan kinisou chok chapur.

    Iei a 52 sakkopaten memmeef, mei chok chiwen wor sakkofeseng. It's okay, it's okay. This is really great! It is one way that brings out your talents, because it allows you the reflect and finally you share and exchange your talents and gifts. It is especially great, for it is your Chuukese mind. I hope so!

    Ren ami ekkei ami mei chiwen osupwang ami ouse kuna auchean ei ekiek, ouse mochen ekis awora anneani sefani eu em eu masowan ei atuttun.

    Fakkun ai nukuuu, pwe ika emon semiritin Chuuk e akkomw kaeo mak me annea non kapasen fonuwach ei Chuuk, fakkun enletin fansoun a kaeo ngeni annei me mak non kapasen Merika, epwe ne fakkun mecheres. Aewin, pokiten a fen weweiti ekkewe tichchikin pekin kaeo usun an emon epwe tufichin mak ika annea. Aruuwan, pokiten e kaeo mak me annea non kapasen fonuan, mei unusen mecheres pwe while he is learning the skills in writing and reading, he no longer has problem with the language because it is the language he knows already.

    Awewe chok, emon semirit nupwen a chok 1 1/2 ika 2 nefongun, a fen tongeni poputa ne kapas non kapasen fonuwan (Chuukese). Nupwen a tonong non sikun a 6 ierin. A fakkun napeseni 5,000 kapasen Chuuk a part of his/her vocabulary. Iwe nupwen a poputa ne kaeo ekkewe mesen mak non ewe alphabet, tori a poputa ne kaeo ngiingiin (sound) tori a ngiiri non foufoun kapas, iwe while he is learning decoding ika phonics, ewe kapas a mwittir weweiti pokiten a fen part of his prior vocabulary.

    Awewe: ika pwe ewe kapas "ngaang" - epwe ne sinei pwe ngiingiin ewe mesen mak ng /ng/. Pwan ngiingiin ewe mesen mak a /a/. Iwe epwe ne achufengeni epwe ne pwisin rong ewe ngiingii /ngaang/. Immediately, epwe ne click pwe (oooo, ngaang as in (I am).

    Emon semiritin Chuuk non Aewein mwich ika 1st grade epwe poputa ne kaeo annea non English ese pwisin wor sineian kapasen Merika epwe men weiries an epwe weweiti met a anneani.
    Awewe chok, eni epwe ne recognize all the english alphabets A-Z. Iwe a popua kaeo ngiingiin ekkewe mesen mak, tori a kuna non foufoun kapas.

    Ewe kapas (leg) Eni epwe ne tongeni decode eu me eu ekkewe mesen mak, /l/ /e/ /g/ = leg. Epwe ne tongeni decode ewe kapas leg. Nge ese wor wewe ren pwe ewe kapas leg esapw pwar of his spoken vocabulary.

    AM I MAKING SENSE HERE???????????????????????????????????????????????????

    I hope so.....

    IEI EU POPUN AUCHEA SIA FAKKUN KUNA PWE MEI AUCHEA AN SEMIRITN CHUUK REPWE POPUTA KAEO ANNEA ME MAK NON PWISIN KAPASEN FONUWACH CHUUK.

    Tungor Samach Kot won nang epwe tongei osupwangen nouch kewe semirit an epwe fang ngeni kich ach fengen tufich pwun ei anean esapw kapas nge epwe ponuweta.

    mama mar
  • Pwan kapong sefan ngeni meinisin,

    Sipwe ani pisekin katon chommong fonu me nukun Merika. Japan, China, India pwan chommong fonu, ir ra asukuna pwisin kapasan fonuwer. Non chok fansoun semirit ra poputa ne sikun, ra fen poputa ne kaeo mak, annea non pwisin kapasen fonuwer. A wor nour pwuken asukun meinisin ra mak non pwisin kapasen fonuwer. Ekkewe pekin kaeo meinisin ren Math, Science, SS, pwan ekkewe ekkoch ra chok asukun non pwisin non nonnomwun fonuwer. Rese ii kaeo kapasen Merika.

    Iwe met kunaomw ren ekkei fonu? Met? Sisapw pwan tufichin fori non Chuuk?

    Pwan met mefiomw?

    Kinisou,
  • My two cents...

    Why not reflect the uniquness of the different dialects and accents of Chuuk in its writing system. Why do we have to standardized our writing to be like the english language for instance? What works in the mainland or somewhere else does not necessarily apply to our islands. Even though a certain practice in the US is "evidence-based" it is not practical to apply the same practice in our islands. Sometimes, it does not produce the same outcome; sometimes it doesn't work because of our unique culture. Maybe just maybe it's easier to have a foreigner come to Chuuk, be exposed to, learn, and understand the different dialects, accents, alphabet/writing system of Chuuk than for Chuuk to change and adapt in order to accomodate the visitor. It is what makes us unique. It just seems more complicated nowadays because unlike our ancient past, we learn from reading and writing whereas our ancestors pass on information orally...
  • I agree. Why break what we have to emulate other foreign based system. As a teacher of many years, I see no purpose of changing the present system. Teach the way it is, not the way it ought to be.

    Thanks LadySweet.
  • Kinisou ngeni LadySweet me spotter,

    Mei fakkun pwung mefiemi kei. Iei met si aneanei ach sipwe rong fengen met mefiach pwun sipwe pwan tufichin weweiti met epwe emweniochu nouch semiritin Chuuk ikenai me nesor.

    Ekis chok, esapw ren ach sipwe appiru met mokutun fonuwen Merika pwan ekkoch. Sia chok watiw ren ach sipwe pwan kuna ekkoch nios.

    Pwan niwiniti, pokiten ach fakkun aneanei ach sipwe aiti semiritin Chuuk mak me annea non pwisin kapasen Chuuk, ina popun mei namwot epwe wor eu napanapan mak an chon Chuuk pwe epwe eu chok met semirit repwe kaeo.

    Upwe pwan niwiniti ne affata ach anean:

    Mei fakkun namwot an eu me eu ekkewe kinikin non Chuuk ika eu me eu fonu epwe wor tupun eu me eu. Iwe ra chufengen ar repwe ne makkei meinisin foufoun kapasen Chuuk mei wor. Iwe repwe ne pwan atipeeu won epwe ifan itechikin eu me eu. Ei anean, epwe pwan fetaneoch ika pwe ekkewe ngiingi meinisin epwe pwa non ewe Chuukese alphabet usun met sia fen affata me asan: Ren iei ewe Chuuk alphabet a chok wor A A E E I O O U U F S K N M MW NG P PW R CH T W Y. Ika pwe epwe tupw meinisin ekkewe ngiingi non Chuuk, iwe epwe pwan wor ekkewe mesen mak (L, SH, H, RH) mei pwa non ekkewe ekkoch kinikin.

    Ai nuku ika e fis ei anapanap, iwe Chuuk epwe tipeeu non eu affatan an epwe anisi an semiritin Chuuk repwe tongeni nipwakeeoch ne mak me annea. Pwun ikkei 2 me nein ekkewe pekin kaeo mei fakkun auchea an emon semirit epwe aunusa an epwe tufich non pekin kaeo ren nesor me pennon.

    Amo ai kei aninnis epwe anisi ach wewengaw fengen.

    Tong,
  • Ok
    we have two different accents in Sapuk: the Kolonians, and the Nukanapeans. make a note of that plz.

    1 Feisat--going up
    2. Ai Anga-ngaaok!
  • Kinisou Chase,

    It is why it is important every island group will be represented in this task. So, it is not to leave out any dialect in as much we are trying to come up with a system that all Chuukese can use for the sake of teaching Chuukese reading and writing.

    Kinisou,
  • I wonder why this topic doesn't come to the final agreement? I do remember back in elementary school, isn't that what we've learning? Our own reading and writing in our own langauge? Isn't the english introduce to the students in the 6 grade and up. So my question is this who come up with those spelling and pronounciation we've been using in the elementary,'cause I think those spelling and writing started in early years. I do believed our ancestors doesn't come up with the spelling but only the words. why not leaving it the way it is and ask everyone to write their own books to share it to the public schools and the parents? I think that will help everybody to create their own books in their own daileg. Hey it might sound so good and we could learn from each other daileg too. Just a thought, since there is no agreement on this topic.

    *(*_*)♥♥♥
  • Thank you onenightstand_tongom,

    We have not come to a consensus yet. One reason is so far everyone still came up with his/her own thinking which is good. This is good! I hope after everyone has shared his/her thougts, then we can come to realize that nothing can come out of this if we do not finally come to a stop.

    Just for your information, it was the missionaries who introduced the alphabets. Then it was our ancestors who started learning writing and reading associating the letters to the sounds of words they were writing. It was great, they could write at least using the letters associating to the words they were writing. HOWEVER, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET IT OUT TO CHUUKESE OUT THERE NOW, IS THE NEED TO MAKE ONLY ONE WAY OF WRITING THAT ALL CHUUKESE WILL SHARE.

    THANK YOU,
    MAR
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